Aug 1, 2023
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Hi, everybody! Welcome to season 3.
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This is our final episode episode. 9 of fabulous academic.
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We're moving into some other things. So it's been quite a while.
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Ride, and so I'm just gonna have the raspy voice, Mag, so kind of go out, walk out into the sunset.
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I have my divine daughter from another life, my protege, my sister Meg Martinezetta Monte, here with me.
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Hi professionally, professionally. People know you, Meg, as our chief program officer here at Namaste Center for healing, and I thought, this is probably the perfect way to end facilities to Candace because we get to talk about what we do that is so specific to our
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neuroinclusive approach to internal family systems, to sexual recovery, to wellness.
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And then also the chapter we wrote for the upcoming book.
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But I need to brag a little bit about you so Meg Martinez Denamonte again, our chief program officer at Namaste.
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However, she's also a licensed clinician, a certified sex addiction therapist, and ifs trained therapist in Emdr train therapist.
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And my work like it may not be. PC, but I'm saying at workwife for close to a decade, like literally, we have worked so closely together for nearly a decade.
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So, for all of the listeners. Here I am, the founder of Namaste, Center for healing, and without Meeg, our Namas State Center for Hilly would not be what it is to.
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That's how important you are to me.
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I'm doing so much. Yeah.
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Hi! I'm so happy to be here.
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I love that you're here. I love that you're here, and I love that because you're in.
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I mean, people know you in our like internationally, people know our center.
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They know you. You're a consultant and trainer of the the Itap.
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I mean the International Institute of Trauma and Addictions, professionals, and so so people in our professional community know you?
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And but first those listing on the podcast. They may not really know, like the significance of you, and how you have been there.
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Right by my side as we've developed programs. So I want us to talk about that, including you and I co-created our neuro-inclusive approach to ifs.
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Then we wrote. Then we wrote a chapter about it.
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We we lived it with men. We think about it.
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Yeah. So should we start, let's start with our maybe our unless you want to start with anything. But I was thinking, maybe we start with talking about our neuro-inclusive approach to ifs.
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Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah.
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Yeah, I was thinking about as we were getting started.
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And one of the things I don't know if this is jumping in too much.
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But one of the things II love so much about the neuro inclusive approach to ifs is the distinction and differentiating between our hardware and our software that we just immediately do.
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And I was thinking about it even as I was getting ready for this, I was like, Okay, what parts of me are anxious?
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What parts of me might be nervous about being on a podcast and then, girl, this is also your hardware, like of course, you're a little bit nervous.
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So to be recorded and that kind of a thing, you know.
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So, even using that on myself, I do it every day.
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Oh, my God! I love that you just said that. So for those listing we've broken down.
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Understanding, our neurotypes and internal family systems by saying, we have hardware which would be autism under oath of autism and neurosype of Ad.
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Ad Adhd also are autonomic, nervous system, which you're a polypept expert for those that are listening, and so hardware.
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We know that I was anxious just the same, we were laughing with our fabulous podcast.
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Producer, Taylor, like like I've never seen you nervous like this.
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Okay. Yeah. And I just can be aware that my autonomic nervous system was having a response.
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And then parts came forward, my software to say, Oh, my gosh, I just you know, Megan, I have such a close relationship offline.
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Now we're gonna get online, you know, part are going.
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Yeah, this is gonna be really scary. Oh, my God, what are we?
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Gonna say, you know, whereas other parts, and perhaps this is more me and the self-energy that shows up to say in a more calm way, right yeah.
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But it's Meg. It's Mac. We're gonna be okay. Right?
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Those parts that worry about what other people think, or, oh, my God!
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Are we? Gonna you know, sound good. And all this stuff right?
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Maybe some fear of rejection, parts that are fearing rejection, and then my autonomic nervous system filling the anxiety about it.
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Right? Right? Yeah. And you know, I think we talk about this in terms of the neuro-inclusive approach to ifs.
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Because understanding the distinction between different narrow types is important, but really it does apply to everyone, and it is so non shaming, because so often to when I love that you just broke it down that way, because when we can also let our parts know this is also our hardware like I get that you're
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nervous right, but our bodies doing this too, right.
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This is just us by a logically, there can be some relief to just like, Oh, yeah, and I'm just me.
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And I'm just gonna trust that hardware right? Like, cause it's my hardware.
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I love that. Yeah, oh, I love that. Do you want to share any?
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I mean thoughts about our inspiration for creating this neuro-inclusive approach.
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I mean I could say it, but I'm interviewing you so.
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Yeah, I, mean, yeah, yeah, I mean, and please ask, obviously, because we're in this together.
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But II think I touched on it a little bit, because the non shaming aspect of any type of therapeutic intervention is kind of what underlines our passion and my opinion.
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Everything we do at normal stay, whether we're working with a neuro, different person or somebody struggling with an addictive process, or someone with a completely different presenting issue.
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Our passion is to come at it from a very trauma, informed non shaming, holistic approach.
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So it just made sense to us, right? It just made sense to us to look at ifs, which is a thing therapeutic modality.
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I know is near and dear to both of our hearts, but also see to both of our hearts, but also see right like even this really really compassionate, beautiful model.
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Unintentionally my in induce shame, or there are microaggressions that exist like that's a massive part of our our awareness in our chapter is like, do we have parts that are implicitly biased that are committing micro aggressions? Against neuro different folks you know.
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and so, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah. Beautiful segue to our chapter. So let's talk about our chapter.
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I can. I've got it right here, printed out everybody I know, I know. Thank you.
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II love the part of you that did that.
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Part. So it. This is a book called Altogether us Jenna Romerzma, our dear friend, Certified.
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Ifs therapist wrote altogether you a couple years ago.
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It was amazing, and then reached out to the leaders in the specialized populations.
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Working with specialized populations to say, Would you please be part of this book that I'm editing right, and reached out to me about.
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You know, how can we really be more neuro-inclusive?
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Right? Or can you write a chapter under a divergent individuals which I like to say, neuro difference?
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So I was honored to do that, and.
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At some point I'll just be completely transparent.
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This was, Gosh! You're a year and a half ago that this process started, and I was found.
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Myself, my autistic brain right? I noticed that my 80 88% of the autistic brain, right?
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I noticed that my and Jenna suggested that you know we have a couple of reviewers.
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I want to give credit to Kimballing, who's a Id.
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And then for being our reviewers, and Jenna had suggested, gosh, maybe we have someone co-author with you.
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And I thought Well, if we're gonna have someone Co author with me, it's gonna be Meg, because you are me.
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Truly, I mean we are so much alike. You get me inside and out, your absolutely the most neuro-inclusive human being I know, based on your understanding of it with family, and so and have just been such an incredible advocate for me so that's where we came together because what I really my
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strength is in explaining to the world neuro difference, right?
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So part, one is all about that right? Like, let's really help.
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The world understands, you know, being sensitive to. And I'm just.
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I'm literally sifting through it. People can see.
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Oh, part one increasing awareness and sensitivity around neuro divergence where we we do say that word interchangeably with neuro difference.
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But we talk about how autism used to be viewed.
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We talked about the neurodiversity movement and paradigm.
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You know, we talk about how there's oh, we got.
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We talked about getting rid of the D's, which specifically for people, because I've gotten heat about d being disability.
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I'm not talking about the word disability, because to me disability really is a valid term to use with neuro differences.
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What I'm talking about is making autism a disorder and attention deficit, a disorder when there's that when it's a neurotype.
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So that's where we are coming from, for those listeners.
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We're not making disability. A dirty word.
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We're just saying K. Dsm, can you ditch disorder for these neurological differences and put them in a book or a category in your book that makes more sense right?
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Please. Oh, wait! You're being interviewed.
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Right? Well, because and this was, I think, if you don't mind me like jumping in something that we is the way that the mental health and you know, medical community has been informed and educated about, different neurotypes autism Adhd has been that there's this
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problem. And here are these ways that we can fix the problem or cure the problem right?
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And so that this deficiency or disorder model, even if there's challenges and struggles which we honor right, it really kind of sets this stage of you're the bad one.
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Something's wrong with you, and this is how you should be.
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And again going back to like the shaming, the shaming, that unintentionally really surrounds, looking at something that way.
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So this ditching of the d who has hashtag right ditching of the d's really helps us to like again.
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Bring in a non shaming approach where we can really see and hear, and know and understand someone's challenges and struggles individually without making them feel like less than, or the problem or deficient right all because we're just changing the way we look at this and it's so important for the
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individual for the client, for the you know, the neuro different client.
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And so important for the provider. Right? Whether it's a family care, doctor, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a occupational therapist like anyone working with someone to come at it from this more non shaming difference, not deficient approach is only going to bring good.
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Oh, yeah, I just love it well said, well said, let's jump into a part, too.
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Doing well. Hmm. Parts.
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So part 2 is all about our approach. Right? And so it starts by saying, how ifs can assist with healing and empowering both therapist parts and neuro different clients.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so, part 2 is where we really dive into ifs.
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Which again, like I said, is I definitely have an attachment to that model.
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I have an ifs fan girl, part I talk about all the time right?
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Because I do see, and I know we both seen just the transformation that happens with that model with people right?
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But just like anything, you know, it's not perfect. And so in part 2, we really flesh out ways that we can use that model with neuro different clients starting with like their sensory needs.
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And you're gonna laugh because I was like craving and I'm still craving one of your little sensory rings.
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Oh! This! Yeah, I can't reach it. Oh, my gosh!
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I was like. I need to bring those home. Yeah, I'm like, I need a.
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I was like, Why are, yeah, I know.
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Wish I could be like. Add it through the phone.
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Like, why are they around my house right like those little sensory rings?
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But we start with that, we start with like can a therapist from the jump?
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Be curious about what any person, but specifically their neuro different clients need in their sensory environment, in their like.
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What they need to learn and take things in gosh! And I know we mentioned this, but I just can't ever forget the client that we had that like.
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We came into an intensive setting, and that person, just like.
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And we're like, Oh, and I feel like I'm in the principal's office, you know.
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And so for us to be able to like really not only help parts, know, you know, hey?
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You're not in the principal's office, but really help their hardware, help, their nervous system, fill, present, and the ability to relax and be in feel that sense of safety like you need that you need that with any healing mode, right?
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Oh, and what I love about our approach again with talking about!
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That is, it starts there. It's the setting right, the setting.
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So soft lighting. Right does. Do you have a weighted blanket for the person?
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Right for this neuro different person that's in with you, you know.
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Maybe they need to drink some hair, some water if you need it.
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Gosh, I've got all these stem toys, and let's just come into the setting right before we dive into.
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The work, because I found that so many of so many neuro different folks, myself included, were very body based now, what I mean by that is that the first is, it can be pretty hard to be in our body.
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Okay. But we're feeling things very strongly. So it seems like a contradiction.
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Right like. It might be hard for me to feel in my body, because it's so overwhelming.
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But when I do ifs from that, like sensory, if I can connect the hardware of, can calmer I'm going to be able to tap into my parts easier.
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Then, if I just walk in and I'm talking 90 miles an hour that we just jump right in.
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That doesn't support what my autonomic nurse system, my hardware needs for a neuro, different person, because I feel things so strongly and intensely, which is so fascinating because we have interception where we don't always but I can feel your anxiety for instance.
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I feel all the energy around me. So many. Different folks to especially autistic folks, right?
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It feels and sounds like a contradiction, but at the same time that's why you have someone that's like we work with a hundred percent neuro different folks, because we've got biological neuro difference.
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Autism. Adhd obsessive, compulsive, bipolar.
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We've got environmental neuro difference. Ptsd, trauma, chronic substance, use or abuse. Right?
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Which changes the brain so. And you know, I know that a lot of people listening might say, Holy cow!
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I didn't realize there's an environmental neuro difference.
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So I know I'm harping on that. I just think we focus so much on the sensory processing issues and the sensory needs because therapists miss that boat. And that affects so many of us that are neuro difference.
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Yeah, yeah, well, this is truly where my poly vagal fan girl part comes out right.
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Because yay, yeah, because again, I do think that the poly vagal theory approach can be something that's supportive for everyone, even noticing what you're feeling in your body.
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What's state you're in? Right? And so when you were talking about that, I was like, Yeah, so when we can validate, I have some sympathetic energy in the room right now.
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Well, of course you do like for us. It's like we are literally being recorded right now.
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I'd wanna check my pulse in your polls if we didn't have some sympathetic energy on board right?
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So then we validate that. Oh, yeah, our bodies just doing what it's supposed to be doing right.
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And so it doesn't become something that we shame or something that we feel we're worried about even more.
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You know, it's so validating. And yeah, and I really do get curious of why, really curious about why, that is missed so much because it's really simple.
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It's really simple to just like help someone checking with their bodies. You know.
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What do you need right now to start? Is it okay? If you fidget right?
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Oh, my gosh! I love that! Go ahead! No! Keep going.
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And here's something I'll say for you. Well, I yeah, I just was gonna say, I'm gonna jump ahead a tiny bit, because the next part or maybe it's a segway.
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The next part of our chapter is really helping our therapist parts understand, if we have explosives, excuse me.
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Implicit biases that might produce micro aggressions.
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Because then for me, that question becomes, what makes you uncomfortable about somebody else stimming right like if somebody else needs to be rocking or assuming, or moving, or flapping, what makes you uncomfortable about that like what does that go back to and wow!
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Who asks those kinds of questions? Right? We no one asked us that in grad school, right?
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They didn't ask us that, you know.
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Uhhuh, yeah. Well, I love that. You're saying that because I had.
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I didn't have a great experience with an Ifs.
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Therapist, you know, and this is where I was inspired to.
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Okay, we've got a, we absolutely need to do in a row inclusive approach to ifs, because we love the model.
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And there's too many therapists out there that are causing unintended unintended harm because of their implicit bias. Right biases.
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And the other things that we're discussing. So, yeah, so this, this is perfect.
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I am gonna just say, go back and start to folks listening.
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I don't wanna create any like questions about what I'm saying.
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We're not necessarily in our body in our lives, because it's so overwhelming that it might feel safer for a lot of autistic folks, especially I can speak for myself, maybe folks won't agree with me.
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It's easier for me to stay upstairs and be a thinker.
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Have thinker parts, just because I'd feel safer to me in therapy, though what I notice with a lot of my autism clients, and I notice with me, too, and my own ifs therapy is it?
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We're very body based. So if you put a weighted blanket on me and I can fidget, and I can really tune into what's going on.
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Aw, so good!
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That's why semantic, if II love it so much, then I can do the work because I come in, and oftentimes I'm up here anxious, autonomic, nervous system, just low, level anxiety, and then I have parts up here in my jaw my thinker. Parts.
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:36.000
My analytical parts. Right? So so, yeah, so I just wanna say that and come back to what we're talking about with bias.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:46.000
Because it all relates right?
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.000
00:22:47.000 --> 00:23:00.000
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I thought I just had, as you said, that from like a therapist point of view is, if we miss the boat about a narrow difference or the hardware we might assume as therapists, that someone has like a really stubborn intellectual part that's
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:08.000
like not letting you access the rest of the system, or you know, when in reality it's somebody's hardware.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:19.000
That's needs to be attended to, really help the whole system, relax and be more accessible. Right?
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.000
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:35.000
It's. And sometimes, yeah, that makes sense. So we might go into yeah, we might go into the weeds.
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.000
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000
As therapists, and this is, I think, also to where microaggressions or implicit biases can surface like if therapists tell their clients well, here's a resistant part, or you have this like stubborn part that's blocking, and maybe there is maybe there
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:42.000
is we could call or yes.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:48.000
Or you're being rigid. You have a rigid, you have a rigid part, or you have an Adhd part, or you have an Adhd part, or you have an autistic part. Folks.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.000
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.000
Though. That's hardware. Our diagnosis is our hardware, and rigidity for folks listening.
00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:08.000
If if so, we know that people can say, Okay, part of the diagnostic treatment diagnostic criteria for autism is rigidity.
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:16.000
Right. That is cause I've actually heard other ifs therapists that were talking about autism, and one of the person interviewing said, Well, what is the rigidity about?
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000
He said, I don't know. I know they know exactly what it's about.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:26.000
So we wrote about this in our chapter. It's autonomic nervous system distribution.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.000
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.000
So when I feel I feel a low level of anxiety all the time.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:37.000
That's my autistic makeup. There is co-occurring anxiety and my autonomic nervous system is just regulated.
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.000
We live in a very anxiety, provoking environment.
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:47.000
That's too much case. So I know that that's part of my autonomic nervous system.
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.000
00:24:48.000 --> 00:25:03.000
Right. And so my rigidity, if I have parts that jump on being rigid, it's because I'm in fear, and I'm probably at the high level of my sympathetic arousal where I'm feeling like I'm really in danger.
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:04.000
Right? Yeah, right? Right? Because our parts.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:14.000
That's gotta be instead of me being labeled as it's your autistic part. And and it you're being rigid right?
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:33.000
Well and no, you're doing, I think this is the heart of what we're talking about in like that second part of our chapter where we're really asking therapists to go inward, because that's statement of thinking that someone has an autistic part and then wanting to
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.000
do work on that. Actually, I'm a part actually ends up.
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:42.000
Following that deficit model, like we got to do something about this autistic part of yours that's so rigid.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:46.000
And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait! There's so much wrong with that statement.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:52.000
In my opinion, right? Because autism is hardware, not software.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.000
And our parts are always the problem. It's their burdens.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.000
And so to expand the analogy we're using here.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:10.000
It's like our hope is to heal the software viruses that our parts can get right, but not to like choose which parts are good and which parts are bad, right? Like no.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.000
But parts, you know Dick Schwartz knewest book right?
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:19.000
And so it's like all parts are good. They show up for a reason.
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:35.000
We want to have awareness of the hardware that they might be responding to right, and not even internally, within that model label parts in a way that they might be responding to right and not even internally within that model label parts in a way that perpetu right so curiosity one of
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.000
the acs like huh! I'm sensing this right.
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Your body, just moved this way, or like we said, with that person like, Oh, notice your body!
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
It looks like you're kind of feeling some, is it?
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:55.000
Anxiety like, what's happening here. That person might have said, no, this is how I like to sit, and we're like, all right, you know.
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.000
But when he went inward he was like, Yeah, I'm feeling like I'm in the principal's office. You know what I mean.
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.000
So, yeah, curiosity, so far.
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Well, yeah, we're going to say that we recently did a ketamine assisted psychotherapy, intensive because we do. Those and folks will come.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:11.000
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.000
They'll fly in from literally all over out of the country in, you know the Us.
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:26.000
With a gentleman who's neuro different. And it was what what's beautiful that we see with cap is that self-energy is more present.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:34.000
So self-energy was definitely in the room with him after his 45 min journey, and I was in there with Chris doing the psychoanalytic therapy.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:48.000
What, and it's just fascinating. I could tell when I mean he was actually navigating the parts himself by just being having enough of energy to say, like, Oh, yeah, I can hear that part come up.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.000
And I'm just noticing it, and they coming back where I noticed this hardware came in.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Was. We asked a couple questions were asked, and he just said, It feels like overwhelming right?
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:04.000
Like, just it's like, there's just too much like right now.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000
I'm having a hard time processing the information. Boom!
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:22.000
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:23.000
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:24.000
That's hardware. Right? So then, so it's like, really, so important for therapy to start to understand the differences instead of saying everything is apart because our neurological hardware is not a part.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:36.000
And so I found that I you know I learned so much of the Ifs structure, including how much education they need around neuro inclusivity.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.000
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:46.000
And that was one of the things I heard. Other clinicians, ifs, you know.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.000
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:59.000
PA, saying, and I had so much capacity, which was my Adhd part, for instance, right and so, and I get people listening.
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:00.000
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Might say, Well, what if they feel like it is? Again we talk about this, too, really honoring the language of the client that's in front of you in terms, including how they say like, if they if they identify as Oh, my gosh!
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000
I forgot the I just completely blanked out, but it's I'm autistic versus.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.000
I have autism, right?
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.000
Person, person, first, or, yeah? Hmm.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Yeah, yeah, and so I wanna say that, too, that what's interesting?
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.000
And part of our model is that we'll we'll be carry about.
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:30.000
Hey? Tell me more about that, right? And then, yeah, do you want to speak to that when we're curious about?
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.000
If someone says I haven't adhd part.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:50.000
Well, I think we're just doing so awesome with transitions, by the way, because, like this, totally, weaves in that like last part of our chapter, which is really creatively mapping people's parts and their narrow different traits, and so like what's coming up for me as you share that is yeah.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:57.000
we can maybe lean in with curiosity around. Okay, can can we learn more about this part of you that you're calling the Adhd part?
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:07.000
And then, with some of the more concrete and explicit tools that we use to help people map whether we're using parts cards or art.
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:08.000
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:24.000
Or physiologically helping them feel it. Music, movement, like all of these things as we are moving about that part, we will start to know the answer of whether or not it is a hardware trait, or whether it is really a part.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:34.000
And as we get to know the part, we probably will find out that it's so much more than whatever another part is labeling as the Adhd part right?
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:35.000
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:55.000
Yes, yes, I love that, you said that I love it, and I wanna go back just so that because we are, I wanna give a tool just a teaser tool for people, cause I know we're saying, Hey, we're addressing these issues in the chapter.
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.000
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.000
First I want to reassure everyone that if you're going to read the chapter if you're ifs therapist or a practitioner, you're not an Ifs therapist, you're just a provider wanting to help people we do we give tips and tools.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:08.000
We give takeaways things you can do things you can practice so we're not just saying these are the issues we do give.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.000
You know, tried and true things you can do that, we found, have worked.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:18.000
And so going back to if there's a microaggression, we actually walk people through what to do right?
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.000
What you can do. I don't know if you want to give a little teaser about that, but.
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.000
The experience in the chapter that's shared, or oh!
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:31.000
Well, no, no, just like, how a clinician could.
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.000
Yeah, yes. Make it make an amends, right? Or or be proactive.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:38.000
Oh, right well! And this is the beautiful. Oh, totally. Yeah.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:47.000
And this is the beautiful thing that ifs up in the first place, too, is, it's such a humanizing model that, like we all have parts right.
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:55.000
And so even on this, even on this interview, you and I have been using parts language because it's just second nature to us, you know.
00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:15.000
So as clinicians when we can drop into that with our client, it humanizes the experience in such a beautiful way, and then when we own and take accountability for a microaggression, and the definition of a microaggression is often subtle and unintentional right and so
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.000
we're gonna have to own them right. And there is an example of that.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:36.000
In the chapter, you know, but like when we can say, Oh, I'm recognizing that I just that I just did that, or I'm recognizing that I have parts that may use language or say things that offend you, or are a micro aggression.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:44.000
And I'm going to say that from the gecko, because I want to honor your experience, and I want to be able to make make it right. You know what I mean.
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:56.000
I wanna be able to make it right. And what a beautiful modeling like! Just what a beautiful modeling of a relationship kind of, you know, acceptance, compassion.
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:06.000
It also creates safety, it creates safety. Sorry to cut you off.
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.000
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:18.000
It also creates safety and a corrective experience for so many clients who are nouro different, that have had trauma from therapists that have had microaggressions that have done a lot of labeling that have used the deficit-based language clients come to us
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.000
oftentimes and we're unpacking a lot of that trauma from therapy.
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:34.000
And so that I mean for clients whoever's whatever therapist is listening, know that if you have a neuro, different client coming into your office, chances are they're showing up a trauma from mental health providers medical providers and other providers.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.000
So that's why we're saying, be proactive in saying this, and then we walk you through.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:55.000
Okay, what can you do if this has happened right? And I'm autistic, I have autistic clients, too, that sometimes, you know, I'll say something, and I'll say I'll own it.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:01.000
You know for me it's more around pronouns where I'm like, oh, my God!
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:10.000
Sorry I apologize, you know. And first speaking from experience and being in my own autistic body, we're pretty forgiving.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.000
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:20.000
So, you know so. But we also need to feel safe to know that our therapist can be vulnerable and accountable enough to own a microaggression that was unintended.
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Or you know that says something, because if a therapist count on it, we don't feel safe, and we I end up quitting treatment.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:46.000
Quitting therapy, and we've and I've heard that from other autistic clients to another neuro, different clients that have said, You know, this was my experience.
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:48.000
It was traumatic. And yeah, I ended up not going back, or we and I talked about this in the beginning of the chapter, or I never brought my autism up again because of the microaggression against me.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:00.000
And then just no acknowledgement whatsoever of my experience so.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.000
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.000
Alright. So then I'm not fully staying, and heard unknown and understood, which, in my opinion, is so required for healing like a human.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:09.000
You cannot heal without being witnessed. You cannot heal without being really seen right and you can have choice around what you want.
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:19.000
To share. But if you feel like you can't share something that's so integral to who you are.
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Right, then it's really really hard to move into that healing space right?
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.000
Yeah, yeah, and we are coming in with our hardware we're coming in with trauma based on our hardware meaning.
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:41.000
My autism doesn't traumatize me. And I that is so controversial because I know other people that will say my autism does traumatize me.
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.000
So I have compassion for all of us. Yes, I have challenging days based on my neurological differences.
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:54.000
I get, I have parts to get frustrated with my challenging days because of my neurological difference.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:03.000
Personally, I don't feel traumatized by that, but I wanna honor folks that really feel like they're neurot difference is traumatic.
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.000
So I wanna say that I know right. And then I lost my train.
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.000
I thought, what was I going to? What was my point?
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:17.000
Well, what I think you were getting at was that the traumatic experiences actually come from how the world responds right.
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:21.000
Thank you for. Yeah. Thank you for helping me get on track today. With that.
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.000
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:29.000
So, I know, girl, you do got me so, and I thank you for saying that the world has been very traumatic to me.
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.000
And then a lot of the neurotransmitter folks.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.000
We see that will say went to therapy, and this was what I was told about me.
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.000
You know, and my neurotype. And so we're so that's why it's just so important.
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:54.000
What we're doing, what we've written about and what yeah, what we're trying to get out into the world, which will be, I think it's out on Kindle, and you can pre order the book that'll be out in August.
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.000
I think it will be obvious. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:06.000
Yeah, anything. Else. You wanna add, I do want us to kind of talk about what you do here and how people can connect with you.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.000
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.000
But anything else you wanna add about our chapter.
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:24.000
Well I loved having the conversation with you about it, and I'm really excited for it to be out and for people to be able to read it and like you, said we, the book actually, Jenna, and all of the editors have done a really amazing job.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.000
I think of making it really readable, and giving tools and resources for people.
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.000
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:34.000
And so it's definitely not like something that'll just go over everybody's head.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:38.000
And yeah. So if you're more interested in it, then check it out right?
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:45.000
Yeah, and then we're still trying to schedule.
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:46.000
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.000
We've been scheduling and rescheduling and trying to figure out what Tammy Sulenberger, so you and I will be on the one inside podcast with her to talk about our chapter.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:51.000
Yeah, I think in the fall, yeah.
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
And that should be this year sometime. Yeah, she's dedicated her podcast.
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:59.000
To share the one inside, to every person that's every author.
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:03.000
So I am excited to do that with you, too. I'll definitely get more of a refresher on this before it's been a minute since we were our hit.
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:12.000
Our deadline finished it, submitted it so we're both kind of joking.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:17.000
We had to review it, and I was so much more nervous this time with you, which is funny.
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.000
So I'm coming back to identity first versus first.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.000
There you go. Yeah, yeah.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000
Yeah, so I kinda draw blank. That is what happens in my brain when I have anxiety right?
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.000
That's not a part. It makes so much sense right?
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Of course, and it makes so much sense right?
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:40.000
So just validating that. So I just II just want people to see that this is just how it is right.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:41.000
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:51.000
But let's finish up our combo today with how people can connect with you, because you and I have developed the intensive programs.
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.000
And that's a big deal. That is a big primary way of connecting with you.
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:56.000
So. Do you want to speak to that?
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:10.000
Right? Yeah, for sure. So you know the nomasting intensives, I think, are really unique and kind of came about because we noticed like Wow, we're full of like our local clients.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.000
But we want to still be able to help and support people.
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:22.000
And you know, we we had people just kind of saying like, Hey, if we if we flew out there for 2 weeks, you know, could we work with you?
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:31.000
And so, yeah, I love how they've grown and evolved, and the way that they are set up now is, we are definitely not a one.
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Size fits all right. So if somebody's interested in doing an intensive with us, then it starts out with like a really in-depth call to really get to know you like going back to what we've been talking about, we we want people to feel seen and heard and known and understood and not just
00:39:48.000 --> 00:40:06.000
like pushed through a schedule or you know, a one size fits all approach, and so there's a variety of different like time, like links of time that people can come be with us, whether you're a local client to where our center is in salt lake or not and we really individualize
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:18.000
it, and you do get to work with me and Candace, but we have some awesome other providers on our intensive team, too, with Chris and our Yoga therapist, Debbie, and we have the Ketamine experience.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.000
That's now part of our intensive. And and so, yeah.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:26.000
Oh, yeah, I wanna tell people, yeah, cause they can have just a intensive and I don't wanna say, just.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.000
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.000
But I wanna say it's separate from the cap. Intensive.
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:30.000
Oh, okay, are we still good? I just noticed it. Kind of glitch.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:38.000
So we have our regular intensive. So folks that are like, I'm not into Canadian.
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:58.000
I don't want, please know that our intensive program still here, and that really is the way that you can engage with Megan I because we're just full.
00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.000
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000
So most of our clients come for 5 days, and there's been a trend of 3 days lately, but there's also been a trend of 10 days, and so individuals' can come.
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:10.000
You clearly can have a neuralological brain that is not autistic or Adhd to come.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.000
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:23.000
We have a lot of environmental trauma. So folks that have the trail trauma that come to our intentives, couples, and intensives where people, you know, my wanna come because they're neuro different and a mixed arrow type couple to work on issues.
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.000
But we also have folks that come for betrayal trauma, and wanting to heal because of our specialty, too.
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:35.000
So, and I do love our intensive, and I really love doing them with you.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:40.000
I love that we have Chris, that does so much of the nursery work with folks coaching and helping people understand what's going on with your brain.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:48.000
And then Debbie is a trauma therapist who has literally known her for almost 25 years.
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.000
00:41:49.000 --> 00:42:01.000
Who, then, has moved into yeah. She works with us as a trauma therapist here at Namaste, but in the intensive does the Yoga therapy piece, which is very body based.
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:02.000
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:03.000
So I love that. And then we did have started our cap intensity, which gosh!
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:08.000
That has been such a big learning curve. Wouldn't you say?
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:09.000
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:15.000
But also for folks that, and you can go to our website to find out more.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:21.000
It's so. It really is beautiful for neuro different folks.
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:22.000
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.000
And anyone I mean, really anyone. We've noticed the power of.
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:45.000
You know this legal medicine, ketamine, and then psycholetic integrative work which 5% of your healing has to do with the actual medicine and journey, and 95% has to do with the therapy and integration of what you learn at that 5% and so our intensive
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.000
catapult people they really are accelerate recovery.
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.000
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:56.000
They accelerate healing. I've noticed that, and then I think Cap is almost like the intensive on steroids.
00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.000
It's just right. So.
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, and I like to say that when you do an intensive with us, you're like our people for life, right?
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Like I was. I was actually telling Chris the other day.
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I run a men's group, and almost every member in this men's group has done some sort of intensive with us, and it was really amazing to sit back and let them really share those experiences.
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And we're late and kind of have that really unique connection with like knowing what it's like.
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And why say that? Because we are very different from not saying this with judgment, but like the run of the mail kind of center that is like. This is what we do.
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Day, 1, 2, 3, because everything is so individualized. And what I love about that is that they were able to connect around how individualized it was.
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Oh, of that!
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You know what I mean. And you know, as you know, ketamine infusion centers and different ketamine experiences are available all over now, and we still get folks choosing to come to us because we're an honesty.
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We're no mistake, and it's not just using ketamine and then leaving right.
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It's like people that are drawn to us are coming because they want to heal right?
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They want to heal on a deeper level and move like accelerate.
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So I love that you said that. So groups you mentioned groups. So groups you mentioned groups.
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So for folks wanting to connect with you through groups. Can you just share what groups you're doing at Namaste?
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Yeah, I actually really love running groups. And right now, I do 2 men's groups.
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One's more of a maintenance group with guys I've had my goodness for 5 plus years kind of just maintaining.
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And that's a really beautifully intimate group.
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And then I have another advanced recovery group that does is a mixed, narrow type group.
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So we definitely leave in our neuro-inclusive approach.
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And we speak about hardware and software. Often we we leave an Ifs and poly vagl theory.
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It's. It's a really beautiful group I had a client share just yesterday, like, that's such a unique group.
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I can't put my finger on it, but like I love it like it's so unique.
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Oh, my love!
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And it's yeah. It's beautiful. And they create that like, it's so unique. And it's yeah, it's beautiful. And they create that like, we like you said, we create the setting and allow the place for our clients to be safe enough to be them.
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And they create such a unique and beautiful intimacy together.
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I also run a partner empowerment group for women that are dealing with betrayal, trauma, which is such a lovely honor to support those women.
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And then last, but not least, and it's like kind of one of my favorite things to do, because I've got a passion for couples.
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Therapy is, I do, a bi-weekly couples class, and that's just so much fun.
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And we've got some really fun. Couples in there, too.
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I love it. And Meg talks all about as you've all heard her, she's so artist articulate, so incredibly.
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Articulate and broke, and if you love how she talked! This is how she is in group, just a wealth of knowledge, so compassionate, just so beautiful, with with so much self energy.
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So what an honor to have you wrap up a fabulously Candace podcast?
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Oh, thank you, you are such a gift! I appreciate so much, being able to to be in this space with you, and so much love.
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Well, thank you, and you are such a gift. We are one.
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We are a mirror, and so, yeah, I just love you, sweet one.
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So what an honor! No mistake! Oh, my gosh! I'm kind of emotional about this.
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We are. We're wrapping up, and Megan, I have been together for so long that it's like there's just chapters that we close.
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And we close these chapters because there are new things on the horizon for enormous day.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.000
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And so you might actually hear us again on other podcasts.
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This is gonna be on our Youtube channel. I wanna say, stays.
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But I think I'm promoting it as me, which creates a lot of interesting nervous system, which, of course, it would so.
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But I have some ideas that I'm rolling around that Megan, Chris and I will be in discussion about with the Youtube Channel, because, as we move more into different modalities of healing and ways of hearing, I am guess what girl you're going to be on that Youtube, channel
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Chris and Chris. We're gonna probably do some Youtube videos where we can talk more about all the beautiful things that we're doing at our center.
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And just each of our expertise. So the world can really get a beautiful sense of Namaste, and just each of our expertise. So the world can really get a beautiful sense of Namaste and all that we offer. So I just want to say to those that have listened. And reached out.
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To me with so I just wanna say to those that have listened and reached out to me with so much loving and kindness and support of the podcast thank you.
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So so much for listening, and this your watching. Thank you so so much for your support.
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Of Namaste, and what we do here, and of just the neurotransmitter populations.
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And please everyone. Go out there and first be tender with your sweet cells and your sweet parts, and then I'm just setting you so much, so much love and compassion at peace and joy and bliss, and I hope for everyone out there that we can spread more love and joy, and less hate so please be
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fabulous, and I can't say until next time, because there won't be.
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But you know what, until next something until the next something, because that's coming.
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I just need some space. My brain needs some space now to create.
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So until the next something sending everyone so much love. You are love.
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Love is medicine. I love everyone out there. Thank you so much for being a support to fabulous Candice.
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Until something next. Bye!
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Oh, my gosh! I love you! I know I know!
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I love you. I love you so much.