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Closed Captions for Season 3 | Episode #6: Renee Rosales

Jun 13, 2023



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Hi everybody, welcome to season 3 episode 60 my gosh, what a morning it's been.


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I've got my tissue. I have a little bit of a bloody nose. So if we see the blood, we're just gonna roll with it as we're interviewing today, our amazing, beautiful.


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Guests, I'm so excited to have you on, but it's just Behind the scenes, you know, as being human, I just like to share that it's not always perfect.


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It's not always like social media, right? So, and I've, I've gotten into this pattern.


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What am I saying? That's not even true. I have a autistic ADHD break.


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So my ADHD brain likes to do a hundred things before my appointment, my podcast. So just so everyone knows, I literally was running around like how many things can I squeeze them before I get on?


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And then bloody nose slowed me down. So here I am. I just want to welcome to our podcast the most beautiful human Renee Renee.


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Grizzales, Rosales.


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How do you say your last name? I don't want to. Hey, okay, Renee.


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And I've got to just touch up the bloody nose everybody. So I'm just gonna brag about you and then we're gonna get rolling.


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Sounds great.


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Okay, so Renee as a mother educator advocate and transformational leader. Yes, she is.


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Has set out to build a better way for the neuro, diversion or neuro different. Humans in the world as as an innovator she is the co-founder of 2 of the first virtual schools in Arizona.


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So that's where our podcast producer who's amazing. Tatum is located and the founder of Sierra, is that right?


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How you say it? Tierra, okay! Hey.


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We call it CR. And there's a story behind the name, but yeah, it's a different kind of I put 2 words Yeah.


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They are, so I definitely want to hear about that. So it's a business designed to support the neuro different from cradle to grace.


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How gorgeous is that. As a visionary Renee has always sought to make the intangible, tangible love it, creating connections and building bridges in relationships that positively transform all aspects of love.


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Renee has dedicated her life's work to helping the neuro distinct established belonging and connection.


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Hi everybody!


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So great to be here. Thank you for the wonderful introduction.


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So great to have you. Well, yeah, I just let's start with the, tell the world about where that beautiful name came from.


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So, I'm a, I'm a creative writer and I have always kind of written stories on the side and the heroin in the story essentially her name was Ara and I actually didn't name her that it was Arabella but I only called her Ara ever in the story so I looked it


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up and our means table of offerings. And so, Fiara, I put together the, this is my table of offerings to everything I've learned as an neurodivergent myself as the parent of neurodivergent children's as an educator.


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I wanted to lay it all. You know, out there for parents and help guide them through. Then they're all diverse journey.


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No, no.


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It's not an easy one all the time and it's rot with a lot of negative stigma.


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We struggle with those microaggressions every day. All the time. And I was listening to you talk to to your podcast with Ally Dearborn talking about removing the D's.


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And that's been such a big part of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Like we don't need to be calling these things deficits, disorders.


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I mean, they are neurological differences that should be celebrated because it's the neural divergence of the world that are likely going to solve a lot of the major problems of our future.


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Because we think differently and the neurotypical brain doesn't have all that insight. It's and it's different perspective that I think everybody should learn to appreciate in a different way.


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Well, I agree. And I love that it's a table of offerings and this is your table of offerings.


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So let's start with a lot of times when adults have neuro different children. They'll take them in for instance to an assessment or and then perhaps the assessor says to the parent, hey.


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Do you wonder if you are? So I'm curious if that was your journey.


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My journey was a little different. So I grew up in a household. My grandfather started accounting center years ago.


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Our family was very intimately involved at the center for much my upbringing, although not therapists, we were, I mean it was the language that I grew up in.


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And I also started therapy. At the age of 12 because it was like right there available to me. And I, but I wasn't diagnosed.


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With ADHD and I know now that I also am probably autistic as well. But I was never, I have never been officially a diagnosed autistic.


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Hmm. Hmm.


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Although my mother is autistic and I wasn't diagnosed with eighty-HD until 29 and honestly I had masked and I had gotten by.


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And I had done well in school and let my ADHD work for me and really kind of just was dismissive of it.


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Until my son was, we started recognizing differences in him. And my older boy, I have 3, 3 boys, my and a daughter and my older boy he presented with those issues.


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With the ADHD issues, but I like we were already dealing with it. When my second son was born, he Didn't talk there were developmental delays and I took him in right away.


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I was an early talker. My other son didn't have any speech issues. And, I was recognizing these issues when he was like 2.


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And so the pediatrician was pretty dismissive. I went and took him to the nearby university, had him evaluated there.


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And it turned out that he had childhood a proxy of speech. And he didn't he didn't talk in an intelligible way until he was almost 4 and we began the journey then and as his neurodiversity began to unfold.


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You know, he's dyslexic. I, I believe he's also on the spectrum, but that's not his primary diagnosis.


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And, I started to recognize and begin to really more embrace my own neurodiversity.


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And then I was dealing with it every day academically because I was directing an online school. An online school is a nontraditional environment.


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Hmm. Hmm.


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So I was seeing a lot of these kids that were that were neuro-diversity and they they wanted that environment because they were having such a difficult time and a larger.


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Grop, a more typical individuals. So that let me down this road and I started there and then my relationship, cause this is the sexiest podcast.


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So I want to talk things to actually with you.


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Oh my gosh, good. Good. I'm so glad.


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Oh yeah, now.


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Yeah, no, I don't wanna just dive into the parenting journey, but it's what got me there because my husband, was also, he's also, dyslexic as well.


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And we were in this mixed neurodiverse relationship and as things began opening up with my sun, things began shifting in my marriage.


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And we began becoming more aware of how much our neurodiversity was impacting. Our relationship and started really embracing it and a whole new way and that's kind of where everything it began to really positively shift and transform although I must say it wasn't always easy.


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I mean we hit roadblocks. I listened to another podcast where you were on with Chris and you guys were talking about practicing pause and we had to learn to do that because I think you and I are liking that when he would just walk away and.


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I would panic inside, you know, I'm like, what are you doing? You don't care, you know, and all of that stuff was coming up and now we've learned to communicate it in a loving way.


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I need, you know, a break. We both do it when I get dysregulated and I'll request the pause too and I always try to think of I use acronyms to guide my brain through things.


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Oh good.


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So I use my piece acronym to kind of help me. Move through the process.


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I love that. Holy cow, there's so much to unpack. Tell everybody what your peace acronym is.


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It's practice exercising amicable calm engagement.


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I have to write this down.


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So I just go there and like, how can I get to that place of calm, whether I need to go do some mindfulness, some deep breathing, go on a walk, whatever I need to do to get into my body, know that like my body is already telling me because you feel all that stuff and it's much more dramatic


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with your love relationships. Because they're what matter to you most, you know, and what caused the most pain for us a lot of times.


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Yes. Yes.


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And so. You know, you're not gonna get anything accomplished when you're playing that tennis ball back and forth with each other.


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You know, so I, the calm and it's been such a transformational thing for. Anthony and I.


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Yep. Oh my gosh, you've said so much. So first I just wanna acknowledge that. There's so many of us in the neurodiversity movement who are committed to changing the dialogue that is going on in schools.


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Teachers and then medical professionals and mental health therapists because The roadblocks are so detrimental to not only our neuro different children.


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But also us as adults and especially being females. We go under the radar so for so long and then are constantly misdiagnosed.


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We are exhausted, right? Like I started early too, completely misdiagnosed, have had the worst most horrific things said to me by clinicians and so yeah that needs to change.


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Yes. Absolutely.


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So kudos to you. Goodos to you for being an advocate, not just for your kids, but also for you.


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And your relationship, right? Because it just has to change. So I just really want to salute you.


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I also want to repeat your acronym so that everyone hears that. Because we literally we live in a world that is too loud.


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Too bright. There's too many people and it's too much. It's too much for human nature and it's too much for those of us that are neuro different.


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Who feel everyone's energy. Which medical providers and mental health professionals need to know the number. One thing that is our issue is that we it's too much energetically, then let's add on all the sensory stuff.


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So piece is this practice. Exercising. Which could mean like what would you say like friendly Kind. I love that.


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I love, I love it.


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Just kind, you know, when you look, I'm a word lady, so it essentially means kind.


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I love it. I love it. So practice exercising a mickable or kind calm engagement and how we get there.


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And I love that you talked about this about you and Anthony is we gotta do just kind of let me step back for a minute.


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Let me pause. I've talked about that so much. Let me just see what's going on inside because there's 4 types of empathy and what you described, which again for so many of us that are neuro different is somatic empathy where we feel physically so strongly.


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Other people on what's going on, even if we can't acknowledge it, that just that alone can lead us into a meltdown, which is not a tantrum.


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It's not a tantrum. It's a valid way of just kind of our system going on overdrive.


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Or shutting down from the world where we withdraw. So this is just beautiful. It's just beautiful.


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Alright. Hmm. It's been so, I mean, I can't tell you when I, because I left the public school system.


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I had had a 25 year career there. I was doing really well. There was absolutely no reason for me to leave.


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I got us through COVID and I said. I'm done because what happened really My youngest son, we took in after his.


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His father got gravely ill. He since passed. And, so I, we have permanent kinship guardianship of our youngest boy.


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And he had been going through all this trauma and I was taking trauma and formed care parenting classes when we were going through that.


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And I realized as neurodivergence the intersection of that trauma because the trauma that I had experienced as a young person related to my nerd diversity and what my son was experiencing was equally intense as what my other son was experiencing all the very different reasons why we were experiencing in this trauma and And we don't have to live in a world that way.


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It's, you know, I talk about the ABCs, be aware, be brave, be curious.


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Hmm. Yeah.


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That's how we should lead neuro inclusion in my, you know, in. And that's the way I've since I started and I left I that's been my whole focus.


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Let's. Teach everyone I can the ABCs and create a more inclusive environment we need to lead with curiosity when we're with other people.


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Oh my gosh. You are speaking my language. So I'm an IFS therapist. I'm also an EMDR certified therapist and we know my expertise is also in section relationships.


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I love that you just said be aware, be brave, be curious because as far as internal family systems model goes.


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Those like if I can just be aware in terms of getting clarity. So this is what we talk about in terms of internal family systems.


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I know I have more self energy on board, meaning I'm more mindful, right? If I have more clarity in this space, bravery is courage.


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And I can be curious. Right? Take out the judgment. We get so much farther.


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Yes. Yeah, so much more time, so much more done. Yeah, just lead with the ABCs.


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I love it.


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That's, you know, that's everything I'm doing at Thiera is about that and I've tried to integrate because it's about education.


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It's a different world, but I tried to integrate everything I knew about behavioral science, CBT, family systems, all of that.


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I love it.


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Love it.


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Into the classes so people could have access that maybe can't afford therapy or can't go in so they go through the courses and there's just little tidbits to kind of give them an introduction to guide them through the journey, whether they have kids that are pre K or kids that are in school or they're at work, you know.


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I have it for the workplace. So it's But it's completely transformed my own personal life.


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So regardless of What all happen with it moving forward, it's moved our whole family forward. My friendships forward, everything about what I do forward.


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Love it.


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And definitely the sexy forward in my life. I will say that because I don't think it's ever been, felt closer, felt like I could more easily, intimately engage with my husband than I do now.


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And it's. It's And it's not because it's been easy for us because we've gone through some really tough stuff in the last few years, but the work.


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That was done through that through the ABCs really is what got us there so I mean What happens?


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I love that. Let's talk about that. So let's talk about some of the struggles in your relationship.


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And then some of like what you what you found like you said the ABC's and then I also want to if we have time just to talk about sexual sensory experience.


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If you're if you're okay with that. But let's talk about some of those struggles, you know, as you 2 are figuring out your brains because mixed neurotype couples, holy cow.


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You're right. It is, it's not easy. It's not easy.


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Hmm. No, and I remember I mean I listened it wasn't it's a podcast from forever ago and I don't know who it was.


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I can't remember who was talking, but it was a mixed neural diverse couple and the one individual was it was a dyslexia related podcast.


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The one individual was dyslexic and they were talking about it's a processing disorder. So literally they described it as, you know, I the wife was saying I have a speed way, you know, he's still on dial up connection.


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If, if you do it in relationship to the internet. Like, and I have always said for me with ADHD, I feel like I'm a satellite dish and he's like a little tiny funnel, you know, like so the information and I didn't realize that My, you know, the way I talked to him a


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lot of times felt like shot like a shotgun. He described it one time in our own therapy as like, you're like a machine gun to me.


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I just can't. Handle it and I wasn't not even one where I was talking to him in an unkind way just literally managing the amount of words that come out.


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So we spent years in therapy talking just about, okay, Rene, you're gonna talk less.


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Anthony, you're supposed to come up with more words, you know, like, and now we're in a completely different phase.


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We got through that because I started realizing, okay, I've got it, dial it back and just understanding that I needed to be really more succinct in my language and communication and careful about what I said to be productive.


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And then we started more recently using visuals. And so it sounds kind of silly, but we literally have a behavior chart on the wall in our bathroom because it's we're there every morning.


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It's a whiteboard and there's 3 things that we choose each month to focus on that the other person needs.


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Love it.


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And then for every day that they do it and offer to us, we give each other a heart on the, and it's.


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Such a visual thing and I kind of I came up the with the idea because we were using it with our youngest son and I'm like, well, this might help us, you know, so and when you see, oh, he's worked that hard for me.


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I may not like feel like we're connecting all that, but he's been trying all week long and he sees that I've been trying and we added the hearts and we look at them every week and it I mean it's made such a huge difference.


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And we both felt really juvenile. Starting it, but it's a visual and it's It has huge impact.


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Well, and let's, I mean, that's the reality is for visual learners, especially because we don't all learn the you know, so you and I are so much alike and I do think that neuro different females Do have different ways of presentation for sure than neuro different males.


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One of them is what you're describing where for a lot of us, and I'm not going to say all of us because there are some autistic 88 she females who are quieter, right?


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And there's also a lot of us that are processing at 100 miles an hour. And there is like this shotgun and when we are excited it feels way intense so then it feels traumatic to our non-neuro different partner, especially like for Chris and I Chris has PTSD so it's like if


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I'm with information, he goes into it doesn't matter if it's positive, it's just like you described, right?


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So I love how you said just you had to kind of dial it back and it doesn't mean you got a change because that's a deficit.


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No, it's just, yeah, it's just. It's working together. Go ahead.


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Yeah, yeah.


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Yes, no, I just you just sparked something in my mind. This is one thing big that I do that because you know we talk a lot about masking and I kept turning it around in my head because there were so many times that masking had worked for me.


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Yes. Yeah.


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It was hard for me to see it as something negative that I shouldn't necessarily be doing. And I saw then I something clicked in my head.


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That editing your behavior is good. And I made up an an acronym for Edit to help lead me.


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But editing is different from masking. Masking is hiding. Going in the closet, I wear my ADHD like a badge of honor.


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You know, I, I think it's a great thing that I was wired neurologically different.


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I value that about myself. It's helped me in many many ways. But I do need to efficiently direct my impulses and temptations.


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Because if I don't learn to efficiently direct those impulses and temptations, then that can lead me down into a very negative spiral.


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I mean in the past, I haven't necessarily struggled with addiction, but I have struggled with eating disorder, things that are common for an urgent female.


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Very common. Yep.


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And you know, I know you talked about with Allie Dearborn, you know, the, the borderline diagnosis.


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00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:56.000

I've You know, I haven't actually experienced that myself, but my daughter has my stepdaughter and I think it was a misdiagnosis because she's also neurodiversity.


00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.000



00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:10.000

Those things can be completely debilitating. And that's when we go into that mask zone, but part of it's because we're not really aware people need to be more aware of the neuro different brain.


00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.000

Yeah. Yeah.


00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:17.000

What the neurodistinct individual looks like, how we operate, we have to change the, the where we're educating people about these things because There's not I mean I said in therapy from 12 and didn't wasn't diagnosed so I was 29.


00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.000

I I wish I had known if someone had told me oh yeah your your ADHD, you're probably a verbal processor.


00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:27.000

A huge piece of information I would have loved to know.


00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:36.000

Yes. No, I love the editing, efficient, direct, efficiently direct impulses and temptations.


00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.000



00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.000

Is that right? Okay, so I want to just also get back to the visual learning because I love that.


00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:53.000

I'm probably gonna go to a craft store this weekend because here's the thing what you're talking about is what the Gottman, so Gottman therapy, I mean they've been around, you know, all the literature, 40 years, will come on.


00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.000

It's been like, it's like 50 plus. But they talk about focusing on the positive.


00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:12.000

And Chris and I will get into this rut where life gets busy. And so then all we're doing is we're just nit picking at each other and that can be really easy in couple ships.


00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:23.000

And so what we've started to do is make a conscious effort throughout the day of just getting back into those positive words throughout the day of just getting back into those positive words of affirmation.


00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:24.000



00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:31.000

And then at the end of the day we do a review but I love that you have this is where my raspy singer voice comes in.


00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.000

I'll have that too, so no worries.


00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.000

So we just roll with it during the podcast. But I know, it just comes in and then I'm a singer.


00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.000

So the visual I think is really key because I know I have rejection sensitivity. And I can easily forget.


00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:50.000

Hmm. Yeah.


00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:51.000

Thank you.


00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.000

Yeah, and just focus on like, okay, I get that he did this nice, but right? So I love that you could just see like no look at these beautiful things.


00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:00.000

Okay, that causes me to pop. So I just really want want to say that because We need more of that in relationship.


00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:11.000

I get So many people that call that reach out. My partner is neuro divergent or my partner is autistic.


00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:19.000

My partner is ADHD. Can you help him? Often times it's a female partner with a male, right?


00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.000



00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:26.000

Neuro diversion. We're seeing more females and Can you help him so that he communicates the way I need him to?


00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:33.000

He can, he shows the empathy that I need. It's very dismissive. It's very deficit based.


00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:47.000

And so Chris and I and you're doing this too, which is beautiful. It's like, so we do a lot of educating around, hey, first of all, let's take out those Ds.


00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:48.000

Right, right.


00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:55.000

Let's take out. Now I'm not saying take out the word diagnosis but I do I do want us to take out disorder it's not a mental illness, it's not.


00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:56.000

And let's take out deficit. Now that's even controversial, Renee in in our autism community.


00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.000

Yeah. Yes. I know.


00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:13.000

I mean it is like I get people that get pissed off at me and I respect that I get it who are autistic that will say but I really struggle and struggled growing up I did have deficits.


00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:23.000

I did have difficulties. So I get it. I respect each person's individual experience. That's not what I am fighting for.


00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.000



00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:32.000

What I am fighting for and it is a fight, it just is because we're up against the not the neural majority that is truly thinks their way is the right way.


00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:44.000

What I'm fighting for is If we can get people, not just medical and mental health providers, But schools and then the non neuro different partners.


00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.000



00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:50.000

And parents, if we can just get everyone to go, this is just a different way. Yeah, they're struggling.


00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:56.000



00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.000



00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.000

They're struggling. But instead of me going And I'm gonna swear here. I, you know, I've heard people literally say they're fucked.


00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.000

Oh, no, I hear you.


00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:09.000

Whether it's my partner, my kid, they're absolutely fine. Now that is not going to help your partner or your child.


00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.000



00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.000

Believe that it's going to hard that they feel your energy. They know you feel that way about them.


00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.000



00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:25.000

I say that was so much compassion. I if there's blowback to me, I'm sending everyone so much love and compassion because I don't intend to offend anyone.


00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:37.000

I'm literally saying what I hear and why I'm fighting for a change in the terminology, just like so many of us are is because that causes harm.


00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.000

Yes, and people don't you said it in another podcast The intention doesn't equal impact.


00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:46.000

I did. Well, impact.


00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.000

And what people don't understand is that a lot of times, and I'm going to say a word that people probably don't want to hear either, but.


00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.000



00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:02.000

Most people that are abusive are not intending to be abusive. I mean, and that's a huge thing you know as a therapist.


00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:03.000

Yes. Oh.


00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:11.000

To understand and many of us are led into these count many neurodiverse individuals neurodivergence.


00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:32.000

Get in to those narcissistic relationships and abusive relationships and it starts off great, but they don't have the right frame of mind going in because they've been labeled and they have experienced all those micro traumas all the way through so they're just looking for that acceptance and belonging and they're


00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000



00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.000

more vulnerable. Then the average individual. And, you know, having been through that myself, I, I don't want it for my children.


00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:51.000

I don't want, you know, I happen to be in a relationship that my husband and I have fought for.


00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:01.000

I love it.


00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:02.000



00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:05.000

You know, and we've done that. We even have a column for extras so we don't just get our hearts like we can write down if they do something extra like you know he we went on a hike the other day and my husband has the horrible like he has the he usually takes us on an excursion and we never get back on


00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:13.000

time and I wanted to be back. I like a plan. I need a plan. And he made it on time. So that was an extra for him.


00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:18.000

And then we get to do it again and we see that, you know, like so it's just recognizing what the other person is doing.


00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:25.000

And being mindful of the fact that He may not intend to harm me or to hurt me in some way.


00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.000

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:42.000

I may not intend to do it, but we do it unintentionally. And so let's acknowledge one and both parties and that sometimes My unedited neurodiversity can hurt him.


00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.000



00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:52.000

And that's okay to talk about. And that doesn't mean I need to mask it. It means I need to.


00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.000

I love it.


00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:58.000

My behavior in a way that's more effective to move us forward. I mean, that's the biggest thing for me, like getting up every day and thinking about how do I move forward.


00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.000

How do we move forward together today?


00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:15.000

I love what you said. So I wanna back up to. So many I want to say that so many neuro different females especially we tend to get in relationships that end up where we are being abused.


00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:24.000

I mean, a lot of us have a history of that. And we are so open, we want to be loved, we're seeking safety.


00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.000



00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:30.000

Ally Dearborn and I talked about this, right? We're seeking soothing, then we're labeled as, oh, you're love addicted.


00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.000

It's like, so I'm not, I'm not really, I'm just not, I just.


00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.000

Right, you're codependent, you're all of those things. Yes.


00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:42.000

Oh my god. Oh my god, I'm so tired of that word. And in reality, it's like, no, we're seeking soothing and safety.


00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:52.000

We need somebody to instead of labeling us as borderline or code opinion to show us how to soothe ourselves, which I love that you have all these beautiful acronyms.


00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:57.000

And I also want to say out of compassion to the non neurodifferent partners who been in betrayal situations because that's our expertise is we do a lot of betrayal trauma.


00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:14.000

Where there's females who've been betrayed. And they have neuro different partners who absolutely have caused so much harm in their acting out, right?


00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.000



00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:34.000

The challenge though is that all of that gets lumped together. So the acting out the addiction for instance gets lumped together with autism ADHD.


00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.000

Oh, yes.


00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:36.000

So then the anger of the partner which You know what? I get it. Those angry parts that have been betrayed so valid, so valid, so valid.


00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000

The challenge though becomes when There are these micro and macro aggressions around your brain doesn't work.


00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:48.000

You're an idiot. You're dumb. You're, you know, it's because you're autistic.


00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.000



00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:58.000

It's and so I gently lovingly want to say that those folks listening, your betrayal trauma is so valid.


00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:09.000

And what has happened to you is real. And it is absolutely unacceptable and you deserve to heal and your partner and you deserve to heal if you choose to stay together and your partner deserves to heal.


00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.000



00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:15.000



00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:22.000

And that's separate from. The neurologically different brain. And that diagnosis and so if you're going to stay together in that relationship.


00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:31.000

You've got to be open and willing together to understand your mixed neurotype in the day to day.


00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:43.000

Yes, that's huge. That's so huge because the other person, the other party that's engaged is just as well.


00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:57.000

My My mother was undiagnosed throughout much of her, wasn't diagnosed. Until much later, you know, she's really embraced her neurodiversity through my journey to be quite honest with you.


00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.000

And so she didn't have any of those. And from the outside looking in, I was growing up.


00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:10.000

I had a lot of anger towards my mother. My father had anger because there were these outbursts.


00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:29.000

There were this there was this uncontrollable emotion sometimes. And now that we understand it, understanding it and having that awareness and then letting that lead with the curiosity.


00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:33.000



00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.000



00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:43.000

If you're in a situation where you can remain in the relationship because there are some times where the the other person whether and I think many times it's sometimes the neurodiversity individual that says, I don't want to do this when they wake up to things that they don't want to tolerate a more neurotypical


00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:53.000

person in a marriage or in a partnership. So I definitely think like and I a hundred percent agree with you that we have to be completely sensitive.


00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:02.000

It's not about like the more neurotypical people are wrong. It's just about recognizing that these are struggles in our relationships.


00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:12.000

Challenges in our relationships that we need tools and skills to overcome. And they're not necessarily have anything to do with someone's neural distinction.


00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000

I love it.


00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:21.000

That that can be totally over here, but understanding how your neural distinction affects your relationship is incredibly empowering.


00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.000

And it


00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:29.000

I, I agree. I agree and I want to say too Sometimes people will say it's an excuse.


00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.000

The neuro difference is an excuse. We're not saying no. That's I just want to respectfully say.


00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.000



00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.000

Please don't say that. It's not an excuse. It's literally a neurotype.


00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:46.000

It's almost like me saying your PTSD brain is an excuse for you screaming at your kids.


00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000



00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.000

So we're not, no, that's not. So it's not, it's a diagnosis, it's a difference.


00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:58.000

And as I've promoted over and over. I look at it as a neuro type that's a culture.


00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000

It's a, it's like if we look at it like a culture where Right? It is.


00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:08.000

Yes. Yes, I agree with you completely. That's huge. Yes.


00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:09.000



00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000

I communicate. I communicate differently than Chris. I amote differently than Chris, right? I behave differently than Chris.


00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:18.000

If my autistic ADHD culture of communication and behaving is different. Can I just as though I'm German and he's indigenous, right?


00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:29.000

He's Lakota, Hawaiian, and Japanese. Can we be as sensitive to understanding our actual cultures?


00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:42.000

As much as our Right?


00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000

Yeah. Yeah.


00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:56.000

I think that's so beautiful. I love that Candace because my husband and I are my husband's Italian and Hispanic and empowering too. Like that's huge.


00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:57.000

It is.


00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:02.000

It's like a light bulb. Like why don't we just Look at it that way.


00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:03.000



00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:14.000

Why don't we, right? Okay, maybe I'll do that. My gosh, okay.


00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.000

That sounds great to me.


00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:21.000

So I'm gonna be connecting with you offline, Renee, cause I just Seriously love what you're saying and we just need to connect so but I want I want to end our podcast by talking about for those I just want to kind of Bring this to life again.


00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:29.000

I have I created a sexual sensory profile. That's available on our website. Novost. Advice.


00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:40.000

Dot com. And one of the things that we talk about so much with folks is we all have a sensory profile, right?


00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.000



00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.000

Where I might be get easily irritated by the clothes I'm wearing. I might be sensitive to fluorescent lights, right?


00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:52.000

I get sensitive to maybe if people are tickling me, I don't like that like hug me, hold me tight, like don't give me the light tickles.


00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.000

Yes, I hate that too.


00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:01.000

Oh my god, certain smells, right? And I'm like, it's weird. My sense of smell, I can walk into a place and just be like.


00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.000

There's poop somewhere. Yeah.


00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:05.000

I'm the same and my visual is huge, which people don't talk about a lot. That's


00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:13.000

Oh my gosh, save. No, well, no one talks about that and no one talks about how intuitive we are.


00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.000



00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:19.000

Truly, we are so intuitive. We're feeling energy, which is intuition.


00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:28.000

And then we say what it what we feel and because we live in a culture that doesn't like that, they don't like that.


00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:29.000



00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:34.000

We have a culture of people that like to mask the truth, we speak truth and then we're gaslighted, then we question ourselves.


00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.000



00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:46.000

Anyway, but the sexual sensory is all about like is it too hot in the room? You know, do I like the way the lube like smells or feels are the sheets the right texture?


00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.000

You know, is the music like, I can't even do this is the fan, the ticking of the fan or the clock driving me crazy.


00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.000



00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:58.000

Do you guys have you noticed that in your


00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:59.000



00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:00.000

No, yes, we, we're definitely that. I am definitely that way. Like I am sensory processing.


00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.000

I like to call it because of all the D's alternate sensory reality. I experienced my sensory system a little differently.


00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:16.000

And you know, my kids have the same issues. And so my bedroom is like a boudoir.


00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.000

Oh, I love it.


00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.000

I love it.


00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.000

Like I make it like super sexy. I, you know, I loved I dream of genie.


00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.000

I know that's like probably not it would not, but I loved it when I was there and I loved her bottle.


00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:32.000

Oh my god, I did too. I did too. Yes!


00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:33.000



00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:38.000

So I, it. It's not purple and gold, but it but it's you know teal and gold and I make it very like it's an alternate experience when you come in my bedroom.


00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.000

I love it.


00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:48.000

I want the best sheets. I, we don't do a lot of electronics. We will have music sometimes.


00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:49.000

Love it.


00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:57.000

I like lighting, you know, obviously candles aren't always super safe, but we're very into and also like.


00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:58.000



00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:04.000

We do a lot of like massage and oils and all of those things are super because oils can be like it's hard to find the right there's It's hard to find the right stuff.


00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.000

It is.


00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.000

I had a melt a candle that would melt the wax of the candle. And it was like the best.


00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:19.000

And then they stopped making it. And I'm like, what? Yes, no, but I think having that place be like, because I think a lot of people make their bedroom and afterthought.


00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:22.000



00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:38.000

And for me, it has to be like. You feel like you're going to a resort when we walk in our bedroom and that's so that I can get my sexy on because unless I'm like that if the room is a mess and it's ugly around me and I feel good and clean.


00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.000

I can't. I just can't.


00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:45.000

Oh, I'm that way too. So what you said is so powerful. It's the setting.


00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.000



00:39:46.000 --> 00:40:01.000

It's the setting and I want everyone to hear that that. You know, when I have couples that will say or I can have clinicians that reach out for consultation that say my cut this couple, you know, they're not connecting sexual, I'll be like, they need to look at their sexual sensory profile, which


00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:11.000

includes the situation. And that's the environment because if you're not on the same page or your your bedroom like you said is an afterthought.


00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:19.000

It can be the smallest things that for one person, they're like, I don't even notice, but the other person's like, I'm just turned off.


00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:20.000



00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:27.000

Right? And this is the reality. How many people are having sex? But no one's talking about this.


00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.000



00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.000



00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.000

And you have to talk about this. This, this is for play. The sexual sensory experience is an integral part of intimacy.


00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:50.000

So if the setting isn't right, or you are struggling with the way the person smells or whatever the clothing, the sheets like you said if it's the lube.


00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:51.000

Start there if people are listening and you have to


00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:11.000

Yes, no, you have to communicate that to each other. It's huge and it's awkward sometimes.


00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:12.000



00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.000

I get it. You don't necessarily want to hurt someone's one, I mean, they're the person you love the most most of the time.


00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.000

So you don't wanna hurt their feelings or say something that might make them like smell is something that if there's a weird smell coming out of one of you that's hard


00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.000

They are. Yeah, I wanna know.


00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:30.000

I mean, and they wanna know, nobody, I like, I want my husband go in there with me.


00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.000



00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:38.000

Yeah, if I didn't smell good, you know, and just being mindful of that stuff and then touch is huge and like how, what is touch like?


00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:43.000

Throughout the day for you. You know, with my husband, he's, you know, we talk about that.


00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:47.000

There's some places because he's big with like public affection. He's okay with that.


00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:55.000

And I have a harder time. So we have had conversations like this zone is fine. You know, this zone is not.


00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:57.000

I love it.


00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:06.000

And It's also, you know, being mindful of just how your family works because there were some stuff that when we integrated a new member of our family.


00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:18.000

Things changed a little bit about how Anthony and I related to each other in front of them just being more sensitive to what What my son's experience had been previously before moving.


00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.000

Oh yeah.


00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.000

So I think all of that stuff is so huge and the sensory place such a big. Role for us is neuro divergent individuals.


00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:28.000

It's huge.


00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.000

So what might seem like nothing to somebody else. Like, yeah, it's huge for us.


00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:40.000

It's huge and people aren't talking about it enough. So the non-sexual also in relationship the day-to-day will impact what's happening in the bedroom.


00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:52.000

So I want to just point that out. That you've got a change in the household. You've got a change in the schedule, there's increased tension, there's stuff going on, that there's not, you're not communicating out of the bedroom.


00:42:52.000 --> 00:43:02.000

There's not a lot of affirmation or connection. That is going to impact how you show up together.


00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.000



00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.000

So all of this in the bedroom. So all of this is really important. Oh my goodness, Renee, I could go on for hours and hours and hours.


00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.000

No, we're definitely talking lady.


00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:16.000

Yes, we will talk later. Any final words, any final words for our listeners, Renee?


00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.000

Any words of wisdom that you want to leave? Leave with.


00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:31.000

I think honestly, like for me, relate any exploration that you do in a podium way into those ABCs being aware.


00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:40.000

Being courageous and brave and being curious about the other end of. If you're struggling in a relationship with your partner.


00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:46.000

If you just do one of those 3, if you can do all 3, you're usually on a path.


00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:57.000

Forward, you know, and that's the greatest thing for me. I think the biggest thing for me has been how do I move forward and sometimes The relationship isn't a healthy one.


00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:58.000

Yeah. Yeah.


00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:04.000

You can't move forward with that individual and that's Okay, it's better to have no relationship.


00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:09.000

It's better to have that than an unhealthy one that's not willing to move forward with the ABCs.


00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.000



00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:31.000

So I think that's my biggest thing and whatever you need to do. To help yourself stay in that positive mindset because we're so drawn to that negative space, our society does that to us all the time and teaches us to escape and the more we go in and the more we reach for each other.


00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:36.000

The more powerful the more positive our impact and impactful our relationships become.


00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:44.000

Oh. I agree. We gotta get more positive. Holy cow, we've gotta change the dialogue.


00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.000



00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:53.000

Yes, and thank you, thank you, thank you Candace. This has been so great talking to you and it's been wonderful to have this time and to be able to share space with you today.


00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000



00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:56.000

I love it. Thank you so much, Renee. How can folks get a hold of you?


00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.000

They're interested.


00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:02.000

You can reach out to and that's t H E A R A.


00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:20.000

Dot com or you can email and also and it's our E and E and I'm all over SDR away on socials.


00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.000



00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:30.000

I love that. So we will also post that, you know, in the description for you so that people can have access and then I'm actually gonna put a link.


00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:31.000

Perfect. Thank you so much.


00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:38.000

I have kind of the funny ABC's of just people that I love and follow on our web page, so that people can find you to there, just people that I love, support and trust. So yeah, okay.


00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:45.000

Oh my gosh, what a beautiful, beautiful interview today. I just want to say to everyone. Love is the medicine.


00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:53.000

You are love. So please find it in your heart to be tender with your sweet selves and to love yourselves and everyone a little bit more.


00:45:53.000 --> 00:46:03.000

We all could use so much more of that. And until next time on Fabulous, the Candace.